Discussion about technical issues and upgrades to 22 TCM firearms
User avatar
By Grayowl
#4264
MANual_puller wrote:The 9mm/TCM slide might not be compatible with 38 super. Diameter of the casing at the rim for 9mm is 0.380, 22TCM is 0.378 and 38 super is 0.406. Would definitely stretch the limits of the extractor to use 38 super with a 9mm/TCM slide/bolt and the casings might be off center enough that the firing pin may not strike the primer and fire reliably or feed into the chamber for that matter. Swapping barrel, mag and slide you may have a chance then getting it to work :D would be a neat gun to have 38 super in an A2 frame :) Probably won't get it done very cheap though. Good luck!


The .38 Super is a semi-rimmed cartridge. Replace the barrel with a bar-sto 38 super comp barrel. Starline has super comp brass which is rimless and feeds better- no rim to hang up. Use a Dillon press .223 shell plate. The 9mm, with the new projectiles is sufficient - if you want more velocity , re-chamber to 9x21, but consider the cost of brass. At the range where I shoot, I've picked up over 6,000 9mm cases, no 9x21 cases, two .38 Super cases, no .38 Super comp cases, and over 2,000 .223 cases that I make into .22TCM cases.
User avatar
By MANual_puller
#4265
Grayowl wrote:The .38 Super is a semi-rimmed cartridge. Replace the barrel with a bar-sto 38 super comp barrel. Starline has super comp brass which is rimless and feeds better- no rim to hang up. Use a Dillon press .223 shell plate. The 9mm, with the new projectiles is sufficient - if you want more velocity , re-chamber to 9x21, but consider the cost of brass. At the range where I shoot, I've picked up over 6,000 9mm cases, no 9x21 cases, two .38 Super cases, no .38 Super comp cases, and over 2,000 .223 cases that I make into .22TCM cases.


If I ever get around to doing this I'll be stuck using commercially available ammo. I don't have the space or supplies to reload right now. Someday....someday.... I'm leaning towards just getting another firearm for deer season. I want a 10mm but I just found a 5" Rock Island .45acp for $368......hopefully I can scrounge the funds for that!
User avatar
By The Old Draftsman
#4299 I have a .38 Super by Rock Island Armory and have fired "tens" of rounds through it with greater than fantastic results. The problem, it's boring. The doggone thing is so easy and accurate it's almost impossible to miss the "10" ring at any range under 25 yards.

I mentioned this to a friend and he "doubted" my "boring" comment and asked for the loan of my pistol and some ammunition. I smiled, handed over the pistol, 100 rounds and my blessing. He returned the pistol in a week with 90 rounds of ammunition and agreed with me that I indeed had a "boring" pistol.

I swear, all I have done to it is a trigger, Ed Brown sear and disconnector, polish the mechanical workings and put some better sights on it. (MGW) It started life as a 1911 full size GI in .38 Super. I actually bought 500 pieces of brass so I could have plenty of reloads on hand... Haven't used many yet.


Rock Island Armory GI 1911's ROCK!
User avatar
By wood chucker
#4327
MANual_puller wrote: I don't have the space or supplies to reload right now. Someday....someday.... I'm leaning towards just getting another firearm for deer season. I want a 10mm but I just found a 5" Rock Island .45acp for $368......hopefully I can scrounge the funds for that!


You got room for two shoe boxes or one .50 caliber ammo can ? A basis set up is cheap, cheaper if you buy used and it don't take up anymore space than a shoe box to store. Only need as much space as a laptop to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kHgzkWoS64
User avatar
By 1911SHOOTER
#12010
cdt wrote:I've asked this question on the 1911 forum and got great feedback from one member that it works well for him. I'm just wondering if others have done a 38 super conversion with their double stack RIA 22 TCM/9mm and if they have had issues with the conversion. If a barrel and mag is all that is needed it would be a somewhat inexpensive conversion. Armscor says it won't work. I wonder what the reason is.


"cdt"
The reason that the conversion won't work is because of the "Para/Clark" ramp on the barrels. And the Super
.38 cartridges will not fit in the double stack magazine. Single stack magazine, yes. You can check with
Shawn at RIA in Nevada. He is the head gunsmith, and easy to talk to.
shawn@rockislandarmory.com

Blackie.
User avatar
By Old Gun Nut
#13173 Just to up date this thread a bit, 38 Super is VERY doable with the TCM platform. I got a Swenson barrel from Midway; along with a barrel bushing, link and pin. After some filing, polishing and fitting, I have a very reliable 38 Super 1911 A2. Got the Starline 38 Super comp brass .The double-stack magazines feed perfectly, ejector leaves my cases about 4-5ft to my right at about 3 o'clock. Started with some mid range loads to test function and it worked! I also put in a 14 lb Wolff spring and since have shot 200+ rounds of top end loads thru it with minimal problems. Had to do some additional polishing to get Hornady HAP bullets to feed reliably, but any round nose from 115 to 135 grains has fed great from the get-go.
User avatar
By 1911SHOOTER
#13192
Old Gun Nut wrote:Just to up date this thread a bit, 38 Super is VERY doable with the TCM platform. I got a Swenson barrel from Midway; along with a barrel bushing, link and pin. After some filing, polishing and fitting, I have a very reliable 38 Super 1911 A2. Got the Starline 38 Super comp brass .The double-stack magazines feed perfectly, ejector leaves my cases about 4-5ft to my right at about 3 o'clock. Started with some mid range loads to test function and it worked! I also put in a 14 lb Wolff spring and since have shot 200+ rounds of top end loads thru it with minimal problems. Had to do some additional polishing to get Hornady HAP bullets to feed reliably, but any round nose from 115 to 135 grains has fed great from the get-go.


From one Old Gun Nut, to another,
you evidently know your Super .38 stuff. I have an email into Shawn at RIA to see what he will charge me to
put a Super .38 barrel in my Hicap .22TCM/9MM. As far as I can tell the mags will feed the ammo.
Did you have to change the return spring? I believe the Super .38 and 9Mm spring is a little different but
not sure.
Blackie
User avatar
By Old Gun Nut
#13195 The most pressing problem I saw when I first started looking at this project was the fact that the original 38 Super was a semi-rimmed case with a .406 rim diameter. 9mm Luger has a .394 rim. 22TCM rim is .378(based off the fact of this case being derived from the 223 Rem) I think the designers at RIA saw the stretch from .378(TCM) to .394(9mm) as easily done, but trying to make it work on the Super case(another .012) just was not doable. BUT......when the 38 Super comp case( a truly rimless case) is used, THAT makes a conversion very easily done. The 38 Super comp case(available from Star Line and Hornady) has a rim almost identical to the 9mm Luger. When I got this info figured out, the conversion was a definite" go" for me. Now if you don't reload, I don't think this will work, because I think most factory 38 Super ammo still is the semi-rimed version.
The magazine was never a question for me because I knew it was pretty much a slightly modified magazine of the Para Ordnance P18 which was available in 38 Super.
I know the TCM spring is 7 lb, but I'm not sure what spring RIA uses with the 9mm; that is why I went with 14 lb Wolff spring.
User avatar
By 1911SHOOTER
#13196
Old Gun Nut wrote:The most pressing problem I saw when I first started looking at this project was the fact that the original 38 Super was a semi-rimmed case with a .406 rim diameter. 9mm Luger has a .394 rim. 22TCM rim is .378(based off the fact of this case being derived from the 223 Rem) I think the designers at RIA saw the stretch from .378(TCM) to .394(9mm) as easily done, but trying to make it work on the Super case(another .012) just was not doable. BUT......when the 38 Super comp case( a truly rimless case) is used, THAT makes a conversion very easily done. The 38 Super comp case(available from Star Line and Hornady) has a rim almost identical to the 9mm Luger. When I got this info figured out, the conversion was a definite" go" for me. Now if you don't reload, I don't think this will work, because I think most factory 38 Super ammo still is the semi-rimed version.
The magazine was never a question for me because I knew it was pretty much a slightly modified magazine of the Para Ordnance P18 which was available in 38 Super.
I know the TCM spring is 7 lb, but I'm not sure what spring RIA uses with the 9mm; that is why I went with 14 lb Wolff spring.


From one Old Gun Nut to another,
Before I tell you what I did, remember, I did not try to fire the weapon.
That being said, I loaded my .22tcm 17 round magazine with Super .38 ammo all 17 bullets. I then
Replaced the ejector from the 1911A1 on the TCM frame, and then the slide and barrel from my super .38 1911A1 on the TCM frame. I then went out back and cycled all 17 bullets through the gun. All 17 kicked out. I feel that without the
Para/Clark ramp, the gun would not have fed properly under firing conditions.
So, now I know, that with a Super .38 barrel with a P/C ramp the gun should be good to go.
Ah, I didn't have anything else to do anyway.
Blackie
User avatar
By wood chucker
#13198 can I throw my 2¢ in here ?

The original .38 Super loading of 1929 was a 130 grain RN stepping out the muzzle at 1,300 fps. Pretty zippy and impressive by any standard,

Factory .38 Super ammo is was and has been loaded a bit lighter since shortly after it came out. In standard 1911A1's it's always run like a champ

Factory .38 Super fodder and similar hand loads have always been 100% dead nuts all day long reliable in my plain vanilla factory single stacks and all the other like ones I ever seen or heard of. I don't know exactly why it gets the reputation of the rim causing feeding problems.

IIRC the buzz about the rim started about the same time IPSC shooters were trying to make major power factor with it. Maybe it was the bullet shapes for the weights they were using. Maybe it was the tightened up custom guns. Maybe it was that they were seating the bullets as far out as they could to reduce pressure spikes. Maybe it was the recoil springs, the double stack mags, the magazine springs or muzzle compensators they were using. Maybe it was a combination of all the above.

So where am I going with this ? The .38 Super (and it's ballistic twins .38 Super Comp and 9x21 ) makes a good hard hitting, flat shooting general purpose and trail round. If that sort of thing appeals to you, you got options on how to "get there from here".